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I have a 1B200 HM 8542 prop. looks to be serviceable. I was wondering if it was worth sending to prop shop and selling.
305E presently in my shop, resealing the Giess axles, there is a small amount of movement after the reassembly and install, question, when properly serviced, is the area under the orifice plate supposed to be serviced w hyd fluid or not, have had this apart a few times now and am baffled, have a couple of these airplanes that I regularly service, this is the first one that has stumped me,
Thanks for any response
I sent you an email. There are couple articles and manual info in the members area that
all members can access when logged in.
Request an experienced engine overhauler to advise on pushrod tube seals that work the best on -11 engines. Reference to same would be appreciated.
Many thanks
Would anyone have information on the “aftermarket spring” that improves the operation of the door latch per the posted tech article?
Much appreciated. bnbesler@yahoo.com
Looking for information on installing a stall warning system on our birddog. STC, 337, Cessna drawings etc.
Steve Datema
I believe I have what you need, Steve. The Cessna factory drawing that specifies what must be done in order to “convert” a military L-19 / O-1 Birddog to a civil C-305x specifies the installation of a Safe Flight stall warning device. The installation then becomes just a conventional stall warn install, the vane located on the leading edge of the wing at the same location that it’s located (both horizontally and vertically) on C-172s, 180s, 185s, 206s, strutted 210s. They have the same airfoils. That must be done in order to comply with the civil Type Certificate, 5A5 etc.
To send you the correct drawing(s), I need to know which model Birddog you have: A model? E model? or… Please let me know and I’ll look for what I have. AJ
Thanks Allan, we are also looking for a copy of the STC that moves the ship battery from the front to behind the observers seat.
I am new to the BD world and interested in getting a copy of Cessna Dwg 0600003 for a 305A. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Pete Smith
pete180@gmail.com
406-366-1435
Allan, Ours is an A Model. Steve
My Skytronics alternator #7565T quit charging and I can’t find a replacement. No one I have found in 5 months of no flight wants to rebuild it and Hartzell just keeps promising next month, next month and on and on. I’m willing to put in a different system, buy a good used, anything at this point to get the aircraft back in the air. Any help out there? Dan
I got replacement last year from quality aircraft accessories in tulsa. https://www.qaa.com/search/7565T
Would like to change the main landing gear attach bolts on an L-19E. Any advice, experiences or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Mike Forrest
I know this has been discussed before and I’ve emailed Steve Noyes but is anyone running on floats? How about amphibs?
I will be putting Edo 2425 flat top straight floats on my dog from Steve very soon. He probably told you that no amphib floats were certified for the bird dog so it could be a lengthy process with the faa. There is a fella that I know who put Edo 2790 amphibs on his dog with a lengthy process. I may try to put a set of PK 3050 amphibs on mine in due time.
I have a zero time SFRO O-470-15 Engine that I just installed in my Birddog. It runs fine. All cylinder temps in green. Problem is, when I start out the oil psi is around 50. After the oil temp approaches normal (100 degrees), The oil pressure drops to just above the bottom of the green arc (30–4 0 psi) I tried adjusting the oil pressure relief valve below the oil screen, but that doesn’t seem to help. Like I said,The engine runs fine, but I am concerned about the oil pressure drop. Should I be?
I have same issue, and never could figure reason. checked spring(sometimes weak, checked gauge, just seems to run low.
figured something in my system. last engine did same and sold to friend who had no issue. 800+ hours on current one so
not really worried. have put word out for some ideas, and will let you know what i find out
Hello everyone,
I have been informed that Regal Air is not any longer in business. Beside being the Cessna 305 Bird Dog) Type Certificate Holder, Regal Air had a huge inventory of NOS parts.
I wonder if any other company got the TC rights and parts inventory and if there any other good source for Bird Dog parts.
Found some more Regal news it sounds like:
“So it appears that ASAP Semiconductor – a longtime web-based parts search firm – has bought Regal. The Type Certificates can be (and probably are) still an asset of their subsidiary company (Regal). I see the Birddog NSNs and part numbers are listed in ASAP’s database and so they’re the outfit that acquired the inventory along with Regal. The next time someone needs a Birddog part, it would be interesting to check it against the ASAP database and if they list it, get a quote from them. It’s interesting the Birddog parts in the database show Cessna AND Regal Air as the manufacturer(s) of the part. Don’t know the significance of that – if of any significance at all.
I’m glad the inventory apparently did not go to BAS. Keeping as many parts sources as possible is a good thing.
Interestingly (to me, at least), I bought hard-to-find discontinued AN & MS hardware a number of times over the years through ASAP’s AOG subsidiary. “
My dad was a C-118 pilot back in the mid to late 50’s. He finished up flying O-1E’s in the Ohio Army National Guard in the late 60’s to early 70’s. The old fighter (qualified) pilot passed on a couple years ago and left me with a curled up prop, pilot seat, and control stick from a crashed Bird Dog. I’m looking at retiring in a few years and won’t have space for these treasured pieces of my dad’s flying career. I’d be interested in donating these items to a renovation project that someone might be involved with.
There are couple folks researching this. One bit of info i heard through grapevine:
Several years ago when I was trying to track down some parts, I found that the operation/warehousing they’d acquired in Mt Pleasant TX had been shut down and it appeared that the only part of their business still operating was their trucking division in Colorado. (They had gotten the TX operation not long after the Mt Pleasant fellow got in trouble for selling Cobra gunship parts to Iran. I love the story on how he was caught: Pirates hi-jacked freighter, Navy Seals got it back, Lloyds of London auditors and US Marshalls checking all cargo against the manifest to see if any pirate theft/damage/or other potential for claims existed and the illegal shipment-prohibited Cobra blades and other parts were found. What are the odds…)
I think Regal still exists as a corporate entity – just not doing aircraft parts.
When talked with one of the BAS people 2-3 years ago (just before I tried unsuccessfully to track down Regal Air), he said they’d just gotten a big infusion of Birddog “and other old military aircraft parts” from someone, somewhere. He wouldn’t say where from, said he was “not sure” (right…). He said that they should be able to handle Birddog parts needs for many years to come. I don’t know of that many large inventories of Birddog parts that could have gone to BAS.
So… Does Regal Air still own the Birddog Type Certificates? According to the FAA database I checked today, the TCs still belong to Regal Air, Inc.
BAS acquired the entire inventory of Duff’s old CAP government surplus purchased NOS parts. I had a blast going through the huge wharehouse when I was putting my Ector back together, made a huge pile of parts, everything I could think of and was told “how about $500”? Afterwards BAS got control of it all, but would still “take offers”.
Bas soldout to brown helicopter in FL
Regarding the Adel fuel pumps : is there a gasket kit or a rebuild kit available? The pump works great but it’s leaking.
Hi Ron,
I don’t know of an overhaul kit out there however I had mine IRAN’d by Aircraft Accessories in OKC about a year and a half ago. Was very reasonable and has worked great.
Cheers
Does anyone know of an approval for flight with door off for parachute operations?
Non i know of. Would be a pain to get backseater out even with door off
Steve Noyes has the STC its a placard that specifies the configuration and speeds to stay under but other than that its a paperwork thing.
I am considering buying a Bird Dog. Ideally, say $85,000 level.
Can I get some opinions on what I can expect for real costs after the sale? I know there are alot of variables. But I want to go in with my eyes mostly open.
Hello everybody.
I’m still looking for Technical Order – T.O. No. 1L-19A-520, Installation of Electric Primer.
and I’m still looking for Modification Work Order – MWO 55-1510-202-34/2, a Modification moving the Flap Motor to the Right Wing.
If anybody has a copy or can find a location of either of these documents, please contact me.
Gunnar Arthursson, Iceland
garth@internet.is
+354-893-5387
We have just sent an Adel 28 volt fuel pump to Aircraft Accessories in Tulsa, OK. for overhaul. There are several pumps for many different Cessnas but not the L-19. Are there any options besides
converting to the STC gravity flow system. Thank You D.Doyle
From Bob Stoney
IDBA members: I’m new the community. Love the birddog for many reasons. One of those reasons is NOT its large baggage capability. Which got me thinking about a “baggage pod”, to be carried on the wing. Perhaps use an existing store (pod, etc), or perhaps design a new one. Mount it to the hard points and/or hook it up to the shackles. The January 2017 edition of the BARK has a picture of an LA-140 or LA-140A camera pod converted to service as a baggage pod. (see attached photo).
I am familiar with the FAA engineering certification process, particularly the handling qualities and performance aspects. Structures is my weak point.
So, I’m writing this ad to ask:
1) anybody flying with a baggage pod now? How did you get it approved?
2) any interest (if I can pull it off) in an STC for such a pod?
3) Anybody know of any “spare pods” out there?
4) anybody interested in manufacturing a new baggage pod design that would interface with the racks or hard points? (this is beyond my skills, but I’d love to team with somebody who might have this interest).
Send thoughts and responses to me, please, at bob.stoney@comcast.net
I personally would probably not want an stc for these as could open worm can.
Just seeing this now, Troy. Sorry for the delay. “worm can”….I guess I’m not clear. If pods were approved via STC for carriage, it seems like it would CLOSE UP a bunch of can of worms. FAA inspector walks up and says “how’d you install those pods?”….there are FOUR ways you could’ve installed them: (1) just installed them, no approval; (2) a 337 was done by an IA who just sent the form straight to OK City records (under either the perception or the hope that this results in somebody in FAA looking at the info…which they don’t…they just put it in the records); (3) A field approval for the pods (with, of course, the 337…except this one is approved by FAA via field approval) or (4) STC (with, of course, the 337…except this one refers to the STC–which is FAA approval). Honestly, I just want to understand why #4 opens up an worm cans? Especially if the STC was given away, for free. I could understand if an STC was available but cost a ton of $$ and this would leave those that had NOT done the STC sort of hanging in the wind…..but that’s not the plan. Maybe your concern is you already have method #3 (field approval) done so why do 4?
Just my luck working with feds. we had almost impossible process just to get pacific oil coolers cooler approved via 337.
There are a bunch using it legal but the fed here wouldn’t go along for some reason. once they start looking at one part, hate to have it bring up
potential other issues on unrelated stuff. we’ve avoided ad’s etc that are not for our plane but other older cessnas. I guess thats my thought
I have a bird dog I’m restoring ,and right now the flaps are off ,and looking at the flap hinges,two of them are seized.
Just wondering ,the service manual does not talk about how to go about to service this part of the flap hinge.If I remove the doubler on both ends of the hinge will I be able to free the bearing?
And if not ,are they easy to get?
I saw one and made drawings of it. I did not take measurements. you need a bolt of the proper diameter to fit in the rudder peddle hole. This could be bolted or welded to a square tube and a piece of angle aluminum. The square tube would be welded or bolted to a plate to use as a step. I do not think it would be that hard to build. Send me your email with a note and I will send you a copy of what I drew.
Does anyone have a set of plans to build a step that slips into the rear rudder pedal bracket? I have seen it in some of my papers and reference materials but we have moved and I am still unpacking and organizing my office and have not come across them yet. I just cannot bring myself to spend over $800 for a store bought one. I have ADSB to buy and few other upgrades for the Dawg so the store bought step is further down the priority list.
Thanks
Jim Miles
Congratulations!
You found one of the major reasons military engine operating guidelines say the minimum oil volume for operation is 6 quarts. The Feds’ guidelines for issuing an engine Type Certificate says the engine must be capable of sustained operation in normal flight attitudes with just half of the “full” sump oil volume. For the -11 / -15, that’s 5 quarts. Adequate supply of oil thru the engine and heat rejection (engine cooling) both drive the calculated minimum that, in turn drives the 2X maximum. But negative G ops and uncoordinated flight that causes sump oil to slew in the sump and away from the pickup are not considered “normal” flight ops and maneuvers. The lower the oil level, the easier it is to unport the pickup. Even at 7+ quarts, severe negative G maneuvers can occasionally cause pickup unporting (as you proved) to result in the oil system sucking wind.
With the typical-of-earlier-Continentals tendency to blow oil til the level drops to their engine’s “sweet spot,” many -11 and -15 operators report their target normal ops oil level is 7.5 to 8.0 or 8.5 qts. It varies with each individual engine. At the sweet spot, oil consumption is minimized, there’s little concern for pickup unporting except in the most extreme of negative G maneuvers and the belly of the plane remains much cleaner.
Reminder: It’s for good reason that preflight inspections include checking oil levels!
Another interesting development. i ended up pretty high on approach today so i did a forward slip to lose some altitude. I happened to notice that as i slipped my oil pressure dropped to about 10 lbs. I straightened out and leveled out and the pressure came right back up to normal, about 55lbs.
What the heck! I added a little power and climbed up and decided to push the nose over and try it again. Sure enough same thing.
I landed and checked the oil as i knew it was getting a little low. It was on 6qts. (L19 with a O470-11). I added two quarts and went up and tried it again. I had to really push over hard but it did it again.
It seems that the oil pickup tube becomes unported under negative g’s. Is this something that this engine model does? has anyone else ever had this happen?
CAUTION – A number of aviation owners / operators / type club sites are reporting a huge influx of scam attempts. Most seem to be from an organized group that has targeted aircraft owners. Most scams are starting with responses to people looking for specific aircraft parts or avionics. Many of the scams seem to feature responses that have poor grammar, sentence structure, etc. It’s clear that English is not the respondent’s first language. So, BEWARE! And be cautious if offered items from an unknown, unverifiable source. If you’re at all uncomfortable with an unknown seller, ask for references.
I have concerns about my cylinder #4 running hot CHTs. My birddog is a 305A with a O470-11 with the gravity feed/ marvel schebler carb stc installed. I also have a 6 cylinder egt and cht installed. At cruise power (2200 rpm) and full rich, #4 cylinder runs 60 to 70 degrees F hotter than the rest (320 to 330 degrees). It is also right at peak EGT at this point. The other cylinders only show a difference of around 100 degree F between full rich and peak egt as it is leaned. If I run it at WOT and full rich all the CHTs, including #4, all are at about 230-250 degrees F CHT.
Cylinder compressions are all good, i have replaced all the intake tubes o rings and hoses and checked for primer line leaks.
Anybody have any ideas?
My pressure carb is leaking gas bad even when the fuel is shut off. I was told Aircraft Accessories was a good place to send it. Any other ideas or suggestions?
Thanks
Jim Miles
I was looking of an article about mounting my windshield and came across the gravity fuel system entry. The only big cost was finding and rebuilding the carb for the Air Repair STC. Th 2 STC’s cost $500. The mixture control is a challenge, but can be done . I can send pictures.I think $2000 is a closer price. You end up with bigger fuel lines ,fuel strainer, and fuel valve. No more pressure carb, or fuel pumps. You basically have a Cessna 180-182 like system. Probably the hardest part to find is the fuel valve, but your IA/A&p should be able to work around this with some new valves from Aircraft Spruce. Call me if you have any question 615 443 4797
Hello everybody.
I’m looking for T.O. No. 1L-19A-520, Installation of Electric Primer.
I’m also looking for MWO 55-1510-202-34/2, a Modification Work Order re. moving the Flap Motor to the Right Wing.
Gunnar Arthursson, Iceland
garth@internet.is
+354-893-5387
Hello to everybody, my name is Claudio and I’m a new member.
few months ago I bought an L19 coming from Italian Army.
I’m plannig to do an heavy maintenance could you help me to recive FAA TCDS (Type Certificate) in order to provide a new US registration.
Regards
Claudio
Claudio, we will look for info, but the email address you provided on your membership signup isn’t working. It comes back saying no such address. If you have another email address, use it to send note via the contact us link.
You could check with Andrea Rossetto, he is I believe near you in Italy and has restored several Birddogs.
Hello Claudio…
I have pdf files for the Type Certificate Data Sheet and the Cessna drawing that lists all the changes (mostly placarding and a Stall Warning System installation) that must be made to former military planes to qualify under the civil TCDS. I can send both. I’ll attempt sending to your listed email, but will advise via this forum if unsuccessful as Troy was.
Welcome to the world of Birddog owners! The Italian planes are good ones. It should treat you well!
Allan, We are looking for information on a stall warning installation for our birddog. STC, Cessna drawings etc. You can call me at 530-260-2388.
Steve Datema
To get some awesome articles about aircraft this website is excellent.
I have manual flaps and they will not lock into place. When I push the button on the top of the flap handle to change the flap setting, the flaps will not lock into any position. Even when I push the flap handle all the way down to the floor and release the button, it will not lock down and when I let go of the flap handle, the handle will come up and the flaps fall all the way to the full flap position. The button is not sticking either. When I depress the button, it feels normal, meaning I do not feel and obstructions and when I release it, it pops back out.
Any ideas guys?
Thanks,
Jim Miles
N5298G
My maintenance manual TM55-1510-202-35 is missing pages 4-12 and 4-13. Can someone email pdf copies of those pages to me?
Thanks
Dave
My Birddog does not have a volt or amp meter. All I have is a load meter. Can anyone recommend a meter that is approved for this application that reads both amps and voltage? I also changed my email address recently. It is jimmie.miles03@gmail.com
Thanks
Jim Miles
I am new to the forum and to Birddogs. I currently have a 1999 Citabria 7GCBC. I have decided to cell the 7GCBC and purchase a birddog. So I have been studying the Associations forums, technical data and talking to any one who knows about birddogs. My wife and I enjoy traveling low and slow, but not to slow. I would like to cruise in that 120-130 mph range as that is what we are used to from our 7GCBC. I am currently looking at a 305A with a 0470-11 and a Noyes Enterprise STCed 80’x64 degree prop. Is there anyone out there that can tell me what to expect from this engine/prop combination as far as cruise and takeoff performance?
UPDATE. I have purchased a 1951 305A with the stock O470-11 and the Noyes 80×64 propellor. It trues out at a honest 132 mph TAS at 2200 rpm. It , of course has lost some takeoff and climb performance vs. the stock prop but still performs well there also.
I want to install an O-470K engine in the birdog I can find all kinds of info and have talked to a lot of people, but no one can tell me where I can get the engine mount. Or drawings for the mount. Help please.
Thanks
George Snyder
Azflyboy01@yahoo. Com
Or 520-661-2127
Hi George
I tried sourcing the same info and like yourself ran into dead ends. The STC went from Colemill to Mike Jones Aircraft and they couldn’t find the old drawings and weren’t interested in supporting the STC when I spoke to them a year or so ago. About the best I could think of is to find someone who’s running one and see if you can access their machine and take heaps of photos and measurements and have a mount built or modified to work, then work on a field approval for the install. As an alternative Steve Noyes modern O540 Lycoming conversion is an impressive machine and certainly worth considering.
Cheers
Does anyone have the oil temp ranges for the 0-470-11. It is not specified in the type certificate data sheet. Has oil pressure ranges and CHT maximums but no oil temp specs. My IA wants instruments ranged but so far no info available. Lyn
Hi Lyn… I’ll send you a document by private email that will address your needs. It pictures all instruments with range markings indicated; green, yellow and red. It is from the L-19 / O-1 military Flight and Operations Manual. Those markings are the ones that have been accepted by the military, civil Safety Inspectors and our IAs for the nearly 70 years of our Birddogs’ existence. Please give me 24 hours to get that to you. It, and Birddog parts and maintenance manuals, can be purchased through the IBDA by going to this website’s “Shop” (merchandise) pulldown menu, above, and scrolling until you find the computer CDs and the USB thumb drive that contain the manuals and the 100 hr / Annual Inspection form specific to Birddogs and their systems. At $20 (shipping included), they’re an inexpensive investment to help assure the health of your Birddog. We’re always pleased to help our IBDA members. Thank you for your membership. Good Flying! aj
Hi Joe… A private email has been sent to you with Flight Manual(s). Other owner/operators needing Birddog manuals can visit the “Shop” section in the header, above, for high quality files of Birddog manuals – Parts, Maintenance, Flight and many more manuals. In the IBDA’s merchandise for sale in that section, you’ll find computer CD disks and USB flash drives containing many, many manuals. Thanks for being a member, Joe. Glad to help… aj
Any way a PCC student could get his hands on it
According to the Type Certificate Data Sheet there is an FAA Approved Flight Manual. 402. (a) FAA Approved Flight Manual dated November 28, 1950 (Landplane) (Model 305A only). Where would I find one?
del fuel pump – The fuel pump on my Birddog is unseaworthy out the vent line. It’s been like this since I bought it. It must be remodeled or I may amendment to a carb came upon. Steve Alfred Noyes will build the pump however not for 6 to eight weeks. Any suggestions? Anyone have a operating pump they need to sell? thanks
Private email sent AM of 1/23 by Michael. If not received, please drop Michael or me a note. For continuing info and Members Area access to hundreds of Birddog-specific maintenance and tech info papers as well as thousands of Birddog historical photos, join the IBDA. Only $30 per year. aj
I want to install a smoke system in my L19. Does anyone have access to 337’s for a similar installation? I’ve put many smoke systems into aircraft over the years. The problem always has been the paperwork, not the installation!
Hi Ron… There should be a couple of private emails on their way to you from members who may be able to help. If not received soon, please let me know. Easiest via direct-to-me email (see my address on Members List in Members Area) or via “Contact Us” link, above. aj
AJ, Richard from North Carolina. I too want to add smoke to my BirdDog,.
looking for anyone that has info on the installation of the more modern O-470 angle valve engine in the O-1bird dog
Greetings, George… A private email was sent to you Jan 7 at 8:30 am with the names and contact info of several sources of engine conversions for the Birddog, both Continental and Lycoming models. Please advise by email or “Contact Us” if that was not received. We hope that info was of value and answered your initial questions. For further information, we urge you and any others who may be considering Birddog ownership or Birddog maintenance / repairs / modifications to join the IBDA. We have almost 300 Birddog-specific tech papers in our Members Area that are available for viewing, printing and downloading as well as Tech Counselors to address unusual or very specific situations not covered in the papers. To join, simply click on Membership at the top of this and all other pages. We work hard to make sure it’s the best $30 aviation investment you can make. To renew, see the entry above for how to easily renew your membership.
George I have all the contacts that we need. Give me or Marc a call.
RENEWAL TIME IS HERE! It is now time to renew your membership in the International Birddog Association.
You can go the the membership tab and renew online from there with Paypal or a credit card if you don’t have the Paypal account. Membership is $30.00 for the whole year or the Lifetime Memebership is an option. If you wish you can also print out the Member form and mail in with a check to IBDA, PO Box 1025, Fredericksburg, TX 78624. Attn; Suzanne Cobb.
Please update any of your contact information that has changed and get your dues in early so you don’t miss out on any new info and all the technical information in the Members section.
Hi Jim… Regarding washers for the spark plugs: The washers for spark plugs are specialized copper washers, often referred to as spark plug gaskets. They’re specifically made for spark plugs and are copper to better transfer heat. Our -11 and -15 Birddog engines have cylinders that utilize spark plugs that require the 18mm size. You can get them at many, many aircraft supply sources, perhaps even your local aviation repair station. Here’s a link for the gaskets at Aircraft Spruce, just one of many sources:
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php?s=18mm%20gaskets
Regarding a crush washer for the oil drain: All -11 and -15 engines that I’ve worked with have had the original Kohler quick drains installed. Those sumps have a large threaded fitting for the quick drain, a fitting that doesn’t lend itself to a conventional drain plug without modification of that fitting and the sump. So, first make sure you don’t have that standard quick drain. If you have the quick drain, nothing’s required. If, however, you indeed have a conventional threaded plug type of drain on the sump, you’ll likely want a conventional washer, not a crush washer. All conventional sump drains on engines I’ve had or worked with have used conventional AN960 (-L “thin” style) washers under the head of the drain plug. The washer may be suitable for reuse if it does not have any burrs, dings, scars or warp. The sealing surfaces of the washer, the sump fitting and the drain plug must be pristine to assure sealing. Before reusing, clean all mating (sealing) surfaces well with Stoddard solvent or similar. A thin film of FuelLube, EZ Turn or similar fuel-resistant lubricant on sealing surfaces often helps better assure a seal. Tighten the drain plug very snugly but don’t over-torque. A twisted-out sump fitting leads to many hours of labor and repair! Good Luck, Jim… aj
Im at my office with no manuals and was wondering if anyone could tell me what size of crush washers do I need for the spark plugs and oil drain plug?
Thanks
Jim Miles
from David Harnitchek,
In response to the question about the drain plug gasket, my manuals have the following information:
Drain Plug – AN900-16 (this is a 1″ ID copper asbestos gasket)
Screen – AN900-29 (this is a 1 13/16″ ID copper asbestos gasket)
Drilled plug for temp probe – AN900-10 (this is a 5/8″ copper asbestos gasket)
Here’s the aircraft spruce page with the crush gaskets
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/an900.php?clickkey=3011719
My bird dog has a chip detector connected to the drain so there’s no quick drain.
Hi Ron… I’m traveling, returning from the Birddog Reunion at Stearman Field, Wichita. Lousy wx prevented many from making it in, but a great time by those who made it and our appreciation to a great host – Victor Riffel. Thank you, Victor! A great event! Because of travel, I’ll email you tomorrow with some questions, then we’ll speak by phone. We’ll try to figure out some answers to the question you posed. Til then… aj
I recently put a six probe EGT/CHT gauge in my L19. It’s a – 15 with a pressure carb. The rear cylinders (#5, #6)Indicate 1450° on takeoff, full rich mixture. The middle cylinders are below 1350°. and #1And #2 are around 1250. Is such a great disparity between the EGT temperatures normal in this engine? It leaves me very little room to lean out the engine. Is there any way to lower the EGT temps in the rear cylinders?
PS- I’ve already tried switching out the probes, the temperatures appear to be accurate.
A good site for bird-dog parts is http://www.newcalaviation.com. You can register to log into the site, submit a part number, and they will tell you whether or not they have it in stock. Also, they have an extensive listing on eBay under “L19 parts.” I’ve seen a few items that people are looking for on this forum, including a push to talk switch and a left and right hand wing (for $700!).on the eBay site. Their inventory is pretty extensive.
My flap drive motor gear pin has sheared and the gear head has backed off. Does anyone have any guidance on how to fix this problem? I imagine the replacement pin is very
specific. Thanks for any input and ideas.
Steve
I have a L-19A Birddog and want to know about the cruise speeds between the 9047, 9052, and 9054 pitched props or any knowledge info on the difference. I plan on buying the 9052 or the 9054.
docclement44@yahoo.com (email)
Doc Clement
Catkiller 18
336-926-4182
Minard Thompson’s book reports (page 54 – and see this website’s info in: Members Area / Birddog Technical Articles / Airframe Info / Prop Info / Prop Perf Tests Results) that “A” model speed increased by 10 mph with a 9054 vs 9047. Yet, operators routinely report 15 mph increases with some reporting nearly 20 mph. Indicated airspeeds vary widely from aircraft to aircraft depending on drag elements (0, 2 or 4 shackles, 4 or 8 rocket tubes, rockets, whip antennas, even “whisker” antennas, flaps’ rigging, etc) and indicators’ accuracy. With the manual method that’s required for twisting our very beefy 90” props, the angle of incidence on those blades can vary significantly from one prop to another, even blade to blade. Some are twistier than others, yet all have been twisted to close to the target 9054. More info will be emailed to you, Doc.
Hi Steve… I have a NOS FM long whip element (still w/factory thread protector on it) and the small FM “cat whiskers” antennas – several sets. I believe one set may be NOS, others are used, good cosmetics. Have used but good cosmetics “bullets” for same. I’ll PM you w/details. If anyone needs other items, clearing out hangar w/20 years BDog parts – some NOS, some YT, some working as removed. No list yet, but will check if you have need and drop me a note. My email: N119AJ@JGroupOrg.net. Allan Johnson, Fredericksburg TX
The FM long whip antenna has been sold as has a set of four “whisker” antennas for the horizontal stabs. I still have a set of unused mil depot-refinished bullets and two (not four) whisker antennas. aj
I got the STC for a gravity feed fuel system from Air Repair. It eliminates the two pumps and the pressure carb. The cot is $500 (I think) plus having a reworked carb. A bit of work, but no more problems withe the pumps and carb.
My pump is back. I don’t know who my mechanic sent it to but it took them three weeks. As far changing to a gravity feed set up, I did consider that but the pressure carb was rebuilt about a year ago by the previous owner. The cost to get the electric pump rebuilt was about $900.00.
I’m told that the cost to change to gravity with the STC, miscellaneous parts and labor would be around $5k or $6k. If I had been faced with getting the pressure carb rebuilt too, I would have gone with the gravity setup.
I need to buy new wheels and brakes for my Birddog. The spec data sheet 5A5 states I need Cleveland wheel -40-97E and brakes assembly 30-63K. Aircraft Spruce sells 40-97A & 30-63K. I called Parker who makes Clevelands and they told me that its been over 3 years since they shipped out what the 5A5 calls for. What have yall done when it comes to replacing wheels?
Thanks
Jim
Jim, were you able to resolve this? I also have this question. The L-19E in our shop now has the 97As installed and there’s no record of their installation in the logs….
Thanks Mike. My mechanic found someone to ship it to for repair.
Dave
Adel fuel pump – The fuel pump on my Birddog is leaking out the vent line. It’s been like this since I bought it. It needs to be rebuilt or I could change to a carb set up. Steve Noyes can rebuild the pump but not for six to eight weeks. Any suggestions? Anyone have a working pump they want to sell?
If I switch to a carb, I’ll be selling my freshly rebuilt pressure carb.
Thanks
Dave
Hi Dave,
Aircraft Accessories in Oklahoma did mine a couple of months ago. Turn around time was just a few days and it works as it should. If the elec motor is fine they’ll just repair the pump section which keeps the cost reasonable. I don’t have the number handy but google works. I’d recommend them.
Cheers
Michael
Hello, I have a Sumitomo Precision Products Propeller Type D2003. I was told it is for a L-19A. Does anyone have some information about that type?
Thanks
Christoph
interested in acquiring an L-19/ 0-1, have a couple of questions I’m sure your find silly, but just getting started. I have hear that Bird dogs have a propensity to ground loop and it was explained to me, “a non expert” it was due to the location and travel permitted by the rudder peddles not the actual tail rudder authority. Could you guys help me understand that one? Also the airplane was manufactured in numerous variants, were the constant speed propeller version more desirable? As I look around for candidates do you folks have any suggestions of what to look for?
Can you tell me how I can find the history on an L-19/O-1 Birddog if I have the serial numbers? We are trying to determine if and where this aircraft might have served in any combat areas. This is a Model 305A Data plate serial # 21512 and Military serial # 51-04627.
Thanks!
4627 (MSN 21512) Accepted by USAF. Delivered to US Army. Transferred to US Army National Guard.
Returned to Cessna, Wichita, KS; modified to O-1D. Last US Army report 15Oct75. Registered 1972
as N100RL; current [Apr19]. Substantially damaged landing at Overton, NV 19Nov78. Pilot and
passenger developed headaches during flight; paint stripper had been used previously on aircraft.
Stored at JW Duff Aircraft Company, Greeley, Denver, CO, 1993. Registered 1Dec93 to JW Duff.
Last noted Aug07. Current at Coleman, TX.
I have a friend that ground looped his Birddog. Can everyone reply with shops that can fix it (West Coast preferred)? He already has an estimate from Beegles. Thank you in advance!
Hi,
Anyone know of a shop which repairs the windup 8 day clocks? Need work on my Birddog’s clock. Plzz PM me also with recommendations.
Thanks,
Mike
Mike, if you have not already found a repair station I used ” Prime Time Clocks” also listed as “Waltham Aircraft Clock Corp”. They are at 2364 S U.S. HWY 231 Ozark Al. 36360. 334-774-3584. They will do a repair or Yellow Tag Overhaul. The Yellow Tag Overhaul was about $50.00 higher than the repair price. Lyn
In search of a part number for the throttle push to talk switch, which has failed on our airplane
Bill… Regarding the Push-To-Talk switch on your throttle quadrant:
The switch on the throttle lever – used for both the Comm PTT and I/C PTT on that lever – has two part numbers. The first is W104ACB6 (FSN: 5930-577-8816 and the later NIIN for that part: 5930-00-577-88160). That p/n switch is shown as available from a number of sources, just Google the number. One such source is: http://www.lintechcomponents.com/search/W104ACB6 You’ll have to request a quote from them and/or any of the other sources. Check multiple sources. Costs can vary by an order of magnitude and depend on whether they truly have the item in stock or would purchase from a known source for resale to you. This switch is simply described as a “Switch, Push.” There is a second p/n, the alternative p/n for the switch. It is D207WB3 (FSN: 5930-674-1204 and the later NIIN 5930-00-674-1204). That switch is described in suppliers’ inventory as a “Switch, Throttle Quadrant” and therefore is likely more expensive. You’re fortunate there are multiple sources available. The small push switch that’s used on the pilot’s stick as the grip’s Comm PTT switch and also used as the armament release (trigger) switch – p/n C1002, FSN 5930-258-4624 – is no longer manufactured. I’ve not been able to locate any except those in spare pilot’s sticks and spare grips. Fortunately, the switch is used in both applications on the stick, so when the PTT switch fails (not “if” but “when”), swap the switch that’s located under the handle’s trigger. We’re not firing too many rockets or dropping too many loads these days, so that switch will (probably) not be needed. All P/N info comes from the Depot Parts Manual, TM 55-1510-202-34P. I’ve found that the October 1972 edition of the manual is the most accurate. If you or anyone else doesn’t have that -34P manual, it can be ordered as an electronic file, a PDF, from the merchandise sales area of this IBDA website. It can be purchased with the Organizational Maintenance Manual (the -20) included on the computer CD. A very limited quantity were also briefly available on a USB “thumb” drive / memory stick. Check the merchandise listings on this site for availability of both formats..
Thanks Al, I’ll track it down and let you know about sources and pricing.
I’m looking for the right replacement gaskets for the gas cap/ filler neck.
Are they the same as on other Cessna?
Is there a supplier for expendable L19 parts?
Hi Ron…
The gaskets for the fuel filler neck for Birddogs vary and depend on which style filler cap is installed. Hence, Troy’s question. Looking in the Depot Parts Manual TM 55-1510-202-34P (Dec ’72 edition), Figures 104, 106 and 107 are the important illustrations and parts lists. You’ll note that there is a gasket installed between the tank’s integral filler flange and an “adapter.” For the old style flat caps with the bar-like handle, that adapter then permits mounting what’s described as the fuel tank cap receptacle – the fitting in which the cap engages as it’s turned.
For the later Shaw lever-latch style fuel cap, Shaw model 416, the adapter is the fuel tank cap receptacle. If I’ve confused you enough, it points out the importance of purchasing that Parts Manual and the Organizational maintenance manual TM 55-1510-202-20 to study the illustrations and parts lists. Both manuals are available as PDF files on CD thru this website’s merchandise sales area. Air Repair of Cleveland MS, http://www.airrepairinc.com/cessna-l-19.html and 662-846-0228 is an excellent source for Birddog-specific parts. Ask for Danny in parts; he’s particularly knowledgeable about Birddogs. Steve Noyes at http://www.birddogsbynoyes.com and 978.836.0361 is also very knowledgeable. Steve and his firm specialize in Birddog maintenance and modifications. He may not be engaged in parts sales of this type.
Your adapter gaskets’ part numbers for Shaw model 416 fuel caps’ installations (the late Birddog caps that have largely replaced the early style caps that are prone to leakage of fuel out and water in) are confused in my parts manuals – or I am. They show Shaw assembly numbers in the old-style caps’ parts list. It’s been enough years since I converted my ‘Dog to Shaw caps that I’m afraid I’d only provide misinformation if depending on my memory to sort out gasket information. Call Danny at the number above. Suggest he check FSN 5330-039-5603 / P/N FCB25724. He can set you right. If you need packings (o-rings) for the Shaw model 416 caps, here’s a link to Aircraft Spruce’s offerings for those o-rings in various materials: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/fuelcaporings.php The o-rings are needed for the cap’s perimeter packing (original spec MS29513-232) and its shaft packing (MS29513-010).
Good Luck, Ron!
Primer Update: I’ve been advised that the Air Repair primer service kit does not include the Teflon string. It does include a new wiper/seal for the plunger. The Teflon string will need to be purchased from another source.
Fortunately, the Parker large barrel primer is stone-simple. (The large barrel version is the only one used on Birddogs.) First, place the fuel selector in the “Off” position. Next, place a small catch container under the end of the primer closest to you. You’ll probably have a bit of fuel drain from the primer. Gently release the rotation lock for the black collar that surrounds the primer plunger. 60+ years has taken its toll on many of the tempered bits and pieces on our planes, so be particularly careful not to break the small tempered lock. Unscrew the black collar surrounding the plunger. Withdraw the plunger. Remove the string-like packing that backs up the neoprene wiper / seal on the leading end of the plunger. Check the condition of that neoprene piece. If not torn, a simple but gentle cleaning of the piece with a cloth and gasoline should be all that’s needed to remove debris. If torn, that seal must be replaced. (I don’t remember if the Air Repair kit includes this piece or not. If included, go ahead and replace that neoprene seal regardless of apparent condition. Note the direction of the “cup” of the seal. Install the new one in the same direction.) Wind the Teflon “string” onto the plunger shaft, in the designated area behind the neoprene seal. The string provides the backup to the seal and provides pressure on the seal to prevent it from collapsing as the plunger moves forward in the barrel during operation. Be generous in your use of the string. When properly wound, it will be slightly larger than the diameter of the barrel in which the plunger operates. It will compress as you reinstall the plunger. You’ll likely have a bit of the string as surplus. Coat the seal with a very, very thin (repeat: very, very, very thin) coating of FuelLube, EZ Turn or similar in order to lightly lubricate it for reinstallation in the dry barrel. With a light, inspect the barrel to make sure there are no debris or scores in its inner surface. If necessary, flush and clean. Next, push the plunger all the way in. Tighten the black collar until the plunger operation is snug but can still be moved smoothly to a fully-locked position. Without removing the catch container, turn on the fuel at the selector. If there’s a leak or weep, snug the black collar a few clicks at a time until it no longer weeps. Operate the primer. It should now be leak-free. If it leaks during operation, but does not weep when the primer plunger is fully in and locked, it’s likely the Teflon string is not firmly holding the seal in position. If it leaks when the plunger is fully in and locked, it’s likely the neoprene seal is not fully engaging the bore on some portion of its circumference. Go back to step one (turning off the fuel) and repeat the process until the primer does not weep with the plunger locked or in operation. If you wish to reseal the primer in the future and don’t need to replace the neoprene seal, a shade-tree mechanic approach is to purchase a small hank of the PMA-d Teflon string in the plumbing section of your Ace Hardware Aviation Department. The string is used as packing in older faucet valves. Good Luck!
We recently acquired a Bird Dog with a large barrel primer. The primer leaks a little, I ordered a seal kit from Air Repair. Any tricks to disassembly and reassembly?
Looking for AWB 2500 Hyd Ski system Tailwheel (AWT2500A) parts. Particularly the 11D332 Rigger, mechanical , 11B811 Rigger attach bracket, 11B810-3 Assy, limiting cable & 11A805 Bushing (2 ea).
Has anyone flying Birddog’s burned Swiftfuel yet? By asking this I’m referring to those Birddog’s with the PS5C pressure carb and fuel pumps. Anyone else I talked to has burned it in either a fuel injected engine or one with a normal float carb. NO ONE I talked to so far knows of anyone using it in an aircraft with a pressure carb. I have not. I won’t until I hear of others using it with no ill effects to the pressure carb or pumps. Has anyone talked to Swiftfuel about this? What’s their response? Not looking for should be ok, think it’ll be ok, or maybe. At $3000 for a carb o/h that’s too expensive to risk on an it should be ok to use. What say all of you?
Any ideas on where to buy material for the interior panels? I’ve found a couple of new old stock but I’d rather just make all new from the same material.
I’m not sure how this forum works since there’s no thread titles. Do we just post questions and answers as separate comments? Do I create another comment if I have a question about instruments for example?
Many thanks
Dave
Have you found the panel material you wanted? I have a roll of the green color which I used on my Birddog a couple years ago.
Let me know……..
I’m toying with the idea of installing Whitaker tandem landing gear on my C-170B. To do it though I need to find a copy of “installation instructions and Dwg. CTG-5 dated October 11, 1952”. The C-305 type certificate calls for Dwg. CTC-5 with the same date. (Most likely a typo – some clerk transposed a C for a G or vice versa). Any leads on finding this document would be sincerely appreciated!
Hello Ron…
Regarding the P/Ns for packings on the plunger and piston of the Geisse axles: Per the -34P Parts Manual (Oct ’72 edition), the packing for the plunger – the number you already have – is MS29513-212. That size is difficult to find and, I’ve been told, appears to no longer be in production. The substitute, a dimensional crossover with an identical ID/OD is MS28775-212, also ID’d as AN6227B-17. The profile of the substitute is slightly different but still satisfactory for sealing within the cylinder bore. That substitute packing’s material is hydraulic fluid resistant, but is not the more resistant “fuel resistant” material of the originally-specified MS28775 series.
The packing for the piston, the smaller packing, is shown in the -34P manual as MS28775-210. That material is the fuel resistant material and that size remains in production. It should be readily available through your usual sources.
The difficult-to-find lock washer/packing combo (described in the -20 Organizational Maintenance Manual as the seal portion of the “washer, screw and seal” is P/N 600-015-8, FSN 5330-715-2750 (per Oct ’72 -34P). Baby that seal! They are virtually impossible to find now. Their only other use (that I’ve found) was as a seal on a 1950s-vintage Navy missile. If you don’t have that washer/seal installed, you’ll have to use a thin #8 washer, an AN960-8L (stainless AN960C-8L suggested if available) with a small hydraulic-fluid resistant packing under the washer. Be sure you have a seal under the head of that machine screw fill plug! Without a seal, I guarantee that fill orifice will leak, particularly as the reservoir chamber comes under pressure during the rebound / return phase of operation. Hope this helps!
There are a number of papers on the servicing of Geisse axles that are published in the Technical Articles section of this website’s Members Area. You’ll find four papers under “Airframe” in the “Landing Gear” – “Geisse Axles” section. If you haven’t yet read them, doing so may save you some grief and headaches – particularly with the very common post-servicing “wiggle.” Good Luck! aj
I’m rebuilding my Giesse axles. I haven’t been able to find the part number for the O-ring on the piston. I have a part number for the one on the plunger, but the one on the piston is smaller. I’ve tried many sources, but I haven’t been able to come up with it.
For our members engaged in the repair and restoration of aircraft:
The FAA has today (2/5/2018) issued a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) regarding Henkel Alodine coatings. Henkel – the manufacturer – has changed the trade name of the coatings and the protective coating is no longer branded as “Alodine” on the packaging or marketing materials. It’s now known as “Bonderite” but are of the same formulations formerly known as “Alodine.” The particular solutions retain their ID numbers; ie. Alodine 600 has become Bonderite MC-R 600 Aero, Alodine 1201 has become Bonderite MC-R 1201 Aero, Alodine 1200S has become Bonderite MC-R 1200S Aero, etc, etc. Manufacturer- and FAA-approved service and overhaul procedures and many other procedures often specify surfaces’ anti-corrosion treatment with a specific Alodine.
If looking for Alodine, you may not find it except for older stocks. The equivalent Bonderite material is approved by the FAA, per this SAIB, to be used in any approved procedure that calls out an Alodine. Its use will be considered as complying with the approved procedure’s requirements. Approved procedures include the manufacturer’s required procedures during overhaul or servicing for return to service as well as the procedures to comply with Airworthiness Directives (ADs) requirements, and Alternative Methods of Compliance (AMOCs). The FAA’s SAIB on this is numbered HQ-18-09 and can be found on the FAA’s website, here:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSAIB.nsf/0/F87909D65FCE4BFA8625822B005AE82A?OpenDocument&Highlight=hq-18-09
Keep in mind that most Alodine / Bonderite solutions are subject to oxidation that results in reduced effectiveness. Most carry a “Use By” date and specify how long product can be held on the shelf once it’s opened. Both of those guidelines are legitimate, not just a marketing ploy to sell more product. If you have questions on acceptable use(s) of Bonderite, see the SAIB at the FAA’s web location, above.
Jake – I will send within the day two 337s via e-mail. One is very comprehensive. The other is very simple. Both have been used successfully and you can choose between them based on the expectations of the officer you’ll be dealing with at your particular FSDO.
Could you also forward me the 337
Allan Johnson: would you mind sending to me, too? If you have any data substantiating the allowable load on tHe hard points (maybe the 337’s have it?) I would be grateful. Thank you
Ron… re: Geisse Axles – No, that 20-25 lbs is the breakout force required to break the axle loose in order to start to swivel into the slde load, the direction of the slide. For that breakout, you may see two sets of figures in publications: 10-12 ft lbs and 20-25 lbs. That’s because the lower figure is truly FT-lbs of force. The higher 20-25 lb figure refers to the force required when the axle is pulled at a point exactly six (6) inches from the center of the pivot shaft. That force at the half foot mark equates to the lower figure if pulled at the imaginary one foot location. Unfortunately, some versions of the maintenance manuals are missing the numeral on the drawing’s call-out of that exactly six-inch location. It will be about an inch or so outboard of the start of the threaded portion of the axle.
Hello I have made some replica rockets for my Birddog and want to install them on aircraft using the standard adapters and bomb shackles ((MA4A) . I know many of you have done this, what is the procedure for legally mounting on aircraft ? I assume you have done a Form 337 ? I would appreciate any guidance you can give me on this so I can keep it simple. Thanks Jake Nelson . jach467@msn.com
I’m setting up a pair of Giess axles for my L19. Ive read about everything on them, but I still have one question:
If they are set up properly, the manual states that it’s supposed to take 20 to 25 pounds of force to rotate the axle assembly off of the stop.
Does that mean that that it takes only 20-25 pounds of force throughout the 30 degrees of rotation of the axle?
Thanks